Transcript
MARC BLUESTEIN You’re listening to season one, episode one, of Bizarre Buffet, and today we’re gonna talk about cults ! Does everybody like cults here ?
JEN WILSON Yes !
MARK TAURIELLO I just left one.
JEN WILSON I actually, believe it or not, have been exposed to one before.
MARC BLUESTEIN Really !?
JEN WILSON Yeah !
MARC BLUESTEIN When did this happen?
JEN WILSON Oh, God. I think this was 2010, 2011 ? It was probably around this time too.
I was dating this guy, and his cousin went through some real traumatic stuff. He went through this program called the Landmark Forum.
I dont know if you’ve ever heard of it.
MARC BLUESTEIN No, never.
JEN WILSON Ok, so. His cousin used the Landmark Forum to help him come out , and to help him with his identity. My ex at that time thought that it would be a good thing for us to do , to help us better our relationship. Which, it didn’t, because three months later we broke up.
So, $800 later we were done.
MARC BLUESTEIN So, you invested this money.
JEN WILSON I didn’t , he did.
MARC BLUESTEIN So, he did for the both of you, to have this “ experience “. Wow, is he still part of the group? Do you know ?
JEN WILSON I have no idea.
MARK TAURIELLO Well, I’m on the website now..for the Landmark Forum. Its says that “ 94% of participants surveyed, found that the Landmark Forum made a profound difference in their lives.”
JEN WILSON Oh, give me a break !
MARK TAURIELLO So , Jen, you’re the 6%. You don’t count !
JEN WILSON I don’t count, exactly !
MARC BLUESTEIN You just didn’t do it right, Jen !
JEN WILSON Well thats the thing, there were people there who clearly should have been getting psychiatric help. Not going through this three day program !
MARK TAURIELLO That’s what it says on the website !
JEN WILSON Does it really ?
MARK TAURIELLO Yes ! I’m reading it now.
JEN WILSON They put you in this room with no window’s, and its 12 hour days too.
The air is bumped all the way up. You cant eat unless you get a lunch break. Then, if you leave, sometime’s they won’t let you back in.
MARC BLUESTEIN So, if you leave..meaning for THE DAY?
JEN WILSON No. Like, to go to the bathroom, or take a phone call.
MARK TAURIELLO Oh, dear.
MARC BLUESTEIN Oh my God!
MARK TAURIELLO But everyone looks so happy on the website !
JEN WILSON They try to tell you that everything in life is your fault. So, the things that happen to you are your fault.
I don’t wanna go too much into this, because we have so much to cover. I find that with Landmark Forum , and I’m sure with the cult’t we’re going to talk about today. They’re main thing is that, they break you down, and want to build you back up.
MARC BLUESTEIN That seem’s to be the trend.
MARK TAURIELLO In three day’s !
MARC BLUESTEIN Three day’s..wow!
JEN WILSON That’s the other thing, they find these vulnerable people. If you think about it, with these cult’s, a lot of their follower’s come to them at vulnerable time’s in their live’s.
MARC BLUESTEIN It’s true. Or, they capitalize on people who may be in a situation thats less than ideal.
MARK TAURIELLO Just for a closing on the Landmark Forum, they all look happy and they have perfect teeth.
MARC BLUESTEIN Oh! Well, happy and perfect teeth is what most of us would strive for !
MARK TAURIELLO Yeah.
JEN WILSON Yeah.
MARC BLUESTEIN Well, I’m very pleased to hear that for them. But, you know what ? We have a lot to cover today, like Jen was just saying.
The episode title is “ My Favorite Cult “. We’re all gonna talk about, for one reason or another, what we find fascinating. We’re not here to give you all the history, because every podcast does that. Wouldn’t you guy’s say ?
MARK TAURIELLO Yeah, and if you’re listening, you probably know about these cults. You might even know more than we do !
MARC BLUESTEIN It’s definitely possible, but we’re gonna try to make this somewhat of a new experience.
MARK TAURIELLO Yeah.
MARC BLUESTEIN We have three today. Which one’s are we talking about, Jen ?
JEN WILSON We’re talking about the Manson Family, we’re talking about Jonestown. And, Mark, for the love of God…I completely forgot. What’s yours ?
MARK TAURIELLO Heaven’s Gate, baby!
JEN WILSON Heaven’s Gate ! The alien one.
MARK TAURIELLO Obsessed !
MARC BLUESTEIN Let’s see here. Mark , do you wanna tell us about Heaven’s Gate ?
JEN WILSON Yeah , I know nothing !
MARK TAURIELLO So, I’ll get the ball rolling. My favorite cult that I picked is Heaven’s Gate. I’m obsessed with aliens, and Sci-Fi.
I love Heaven’s Gate because it was a bizarre situation. Just a quick summary about Heaven’s Gate , in case you don’t know much about it.
It was a cult that formed in the 1960’s / 1970’s.
In 1997, 39 member’s committed suicide inside of a beautiful mansion in California.
They all believed that alien’s came to earth thousand’s of year’s ago, and planted seed’s, that were basically human’s, and that there were “ evil alien’s “ out there. They were kind of …making this planet tainted.
In 1997 when the Hale Bop Comet was passing Planet Earth, there was supposed to be a UFO riding the tail of the comet. Where basically, if they all died and left their earthly vessel’s, they would float up into the comet …into the spaceship.
JEN WILSON Oh !
MARC BLUESTEIN Intergalactic !
MARK TAURIELLO Very Intergalactic .
So basically what I like about all this is that , it’s like that weird era before the New Millennium.
JEN WILSON Y2K, yeah .
MARK TAURIELLO Everyone thought they were all gonna die. Basically, their website…HeavensGate.com , I think its called. Hold on, let me check. Yeah, HeavensGate.com.
It’s still stuck in the 90’s, you have this really cheesy backdrop of cosmic stars. And then you have the Heavens Gate logo, which is like a key, with this beautiful airbrushed rainbow font.
MARC BLUESTEIN Oh!
MARK TAURIELLO Stunning.
And all the text is in like, different colors. I don’t know, I just like the fact that this cult has a clear cut aesthetic. Even down to in the mansion when they found the bodies , they were all wearing the black Nike jumpsuit’s, the black and white Nike sneakers. And they all had a purple square blanket draped over their bodies, in the shape of a diamond.
I just like the fact that there was some sort of consistency with aesthetic and image.
MARC BLUESTEIN And you’re a fashion designer.
MARK TAURIELLO I’m a fashion designer !
JEN WILSON Yeah !
MARC BLUESTEIN So, you appreciate those sorts of things.
MARK TAURIELLO But its funny, so I emailed Heavens Gate. I emailed them.
MARC BLUESTEIN Wow! The Home Team got back to you, or ?
MARK TAURIELLO They got back to me !
MARC BLUESTEIN Aww!
MARK TAURIELLO So, the correspondence is really, really, brief . And curt, and to the point. But I mean, also, when they were active they did these meditations…to avoid being able to think, or have thoughts. So..
MARC BLUESTEIN I try to do those too, but that’s just because people are tiring.
MARK TAURIELLO I don’t blame you.
MARK TAURIELLO Here’s the email that I sent them, and I’m gonna tell you their response.
I said
“ Hello,
Hope you’re doing well in these hectic time’s.
I am respectfully writing to you because I have been doing research about Heaven’s Gate, and am trying to have a better understanding of Heaven’s Gates use of aesthetics and the color purple.
I noticed that in a lot of video message’s from Marshall, and the sheets used to cover the deceased member’s in 1997, everything seemed to have a purple tint to it. “
JEN WILSON Haha !
MARK TAURIELLO Out of curiosity, I would love to know
MARC BLUESTEIN Haha! They were like, this guy’s crazy !
MARK TAURIELLO I know! They were like , “ haha, okay…”
“ Out of curiosity, I would love to know …”
They probably don’t get inquiries like this.
So, I said
“ Out of curiosity, I would love to know if the color purple has any further meaning to your organization? And if you could share some of the fact’s behind the aesthetic’s of Heavens Gate ?”
So, they promptly responded….and they said
“ NO. It is just a color that Ti liked. We like that color too.”
Now, mind you, the font they used to respond… is also in purple.
MARC BLUESTEIN No it’s not !
JEN WILSON Now, who’s Ti ? Who’s Ti ?
MARK TAURIELLO Ti was the cult leader. His name was Marshall Applewhite.
They didn’t really go by their real names, because they were stripped of their identity.
He called himself “ Ti “, and his wife who died before him..probably 10 – 15 year’s before the suicide’s, her fake name was “ Do “.
And they got that because he was a music teacher, and he had a Homosexual encounter with one of his student’s.
It was a whole scandal. So, he kind of like…up and left.
Since he was a music teacher, they picked “ Ti “ and “ Do “ .
MARC BLUESTEIN That’s very interesting.
MARK TAURIELLO But now I have to tell you the second email .
MARC BLUESTEIN Oh, there’s another one !
JEN WILSON Woah !
MARK TAURIELLO There’s another one !
MARC BLUESTEIN Huh, wow ! I’m ready !
MARK TAURIELLO Okay . Here’s the second one.
I said
“ Hello,
Thank you so much for your response.
I do have another question as well ! In regards to aesthetic’s and concept’s.
In Do’s final Exit Video, the backdrop is a screen, showing what looks like an infinite universe of Do . Was that intentional ? And if so, how was that video effect achieved ? And does it have any deeper meaning ? “
MARC BLUESTIN I just have to say, and I’m sorry to cut you off…
MARK TAURIELLO No, no !
MARC BLUESTEIN I would really just love to know what their response was when they got this email, because , I don’t know, maybe I’m wrong, but I have a feeling this is the first time they’ve gotten aesthetic related email’s.
But, anyway
JEN WILSON I also feel like this might be the first time they’re getting an email inquiry in a while.
MARC BLUESTEIN Probably. I mean …
JEN WILSON I would just love to be a fly on the wall seeing them get the email.
MARC BLUESTEIN Exactly !
MARK TAURIELLO Well I hope they were wearing like, a purple robe…with wizard sleeves.
MARC BLUESTEIN If they’re working from home, or from their office , they’re probably in work attire…for their Zoom call’s!
MARK TAURIELLO Oxford shirt’s. Pleated pant’s.
Shaved head.
Ok, so. The response was another curt one.
And they said
“ It was just a fun background to use. We can’t remember how it was produced. There was no deeper meaning to it. “
So, now ….
MARC BLUESTEIN Wow, okay !
MARK TAURIELLO I’m like “ Damn, just make something up ! “
I don’t know. Again, just going back to the Sci – Fi stuff. One of the member’s…some people may not know this.
One of the member’s, his sister was a character… an actress that was on Startrek.
JEN WILSON Really !?
MARK TAURIELLO. Yeah. His name was Thomas Nichols, and his sister was Michele Nichols.
JEN WILSON I know nothing about Startrek .
MARK TAURIELLO I don’t watch that show.
JEN WILSON No.
MARC. No, I don’t watch that show. All I know is, visually, what some of the character’s look like.
JEN WILSON Yeah. I know that, and that Cling On is an actual language…and people..speak it .
MARC BLUESTEIN Really ? Thats a thing ?
JEN WILSON Yeah . If you go to Startrek convention’s, people can speak fluent Cling On .
MARC BLUESTEIN I feel like I should know this, but I’m genuinely surprised. I did not know this
JEN WILSON See, we’re all learning something new !
MARC BLUESTEIN We are! This is an informative episode !
MARK TAURIELLO I’m going to inform you guys with a few more interesting point’s about Heavens Gate.
Did you know that all of the member’s in the house had to take out Alien Insurance policies ?
MARC BLUESTEIN What is THAT ?
MARK TAURIELLO It’s an insurance policy that allegedly cover’s 50 cult member’s. It protects you from alien abduction , alien impregnation, and alien death, up to one million dollars per person.
So, I wanna know, everyone that died…the 39 people that took out alien insurance policies …. Did that one million dollars go to their families ?
MARC BLUESTEIN I mean..who fund’s..? Who’s providing that policy ?
I mean, you don’t go to State Farm and be like “ I’d like to cash in my Alien Insurance policy “
Who’s paying for that ?
MARK TAURIELLO I don’t know…But they all had to pay into it.
MARC BLUESTEIN Wow.
JEN WILSON Wow.
These cult’s are not cheap ! They’re pretty damn expensive.
MARK TAURIELLO Well, Heaven’s Gate, they cut corner’s. Because they had patio furniture.
MARC BLUESTEIN Oh, well !
MARK TAURIELLO Cheapskates.
Another thing too. I did some research. And apparently , Nike, was not very pleased that all of the cult member’s committed suicide wearing their sneaker’s.
MARC BLUESTEIN I can imagine !
MARK TAURIELLO And the reason. I would have been happy! Because at least its a bulk sale, its 39 units.
They only got them because they were affordable. They were penny pinchers!
MARC BLUESTEIN Yeah, clearly !
Nike is still in existence, so I’m sure they recovered from that. But let me tell you, if you try to find those sneakers on eBay..they do NOT come cheap.
JEN WILSON You know, I’m on the website right now. It looks like one of those really cheaply made webpages from the 90’s. And to let you know, the G thats on the top, it looks like the Greenbay Packers football logo.
MARK TAURIELLO It does .
MARC BLUESTEIN It does. I think its been commented on that they took the logo directly from that. Or something like that .
MARK TAURIELLO They’re so batshit crazy that other UFO Cults look at them and go “ Oh my God, these guys are nuts ..”
MARC BLUESTEIN “ Your UFO Cult and mine…two completely different things”
MARK TAURIELLO They actually had to…everything needed to be identical, even their pancakes.
They would measure the amount of liquid, so each persons pancakes were the same size.
MARC BLUESTEIN Whats the ..? I mean…Whats the purpose ?
MARK TAURIELLO Because everyone had to be like, equal. Equal playing field.
JEN WILSON Hmm
MARK TAURIELLO And all of the men had to be castrated.
I think a lot of the members were closeted Gay people. Because they had to renounce their sexuality.
The leader had that thing with the student.
I think a lot of the time these cults are formed with the purpose of Homosexual repression.
The last point that I have, then I think we can move on with the comet.
The guy, the scientist, or the astronomer..who discovered Hale Bop.
He was basically concerned, because he had said that he thought comet’s would bring a mass suicide. Comet’s are often associated with the end of the world, and the end of times.
He felt that, not necessarily that a cult suicide would happen, but that a mass suicide would happen..because of the comet. And he was right.
MARC BLUESTEIN Wow. That’s fascinating.
It’s such an interesting story, and I love that they’re still in existence.
I would love to have a member count of the current Heavens Gate members.
MARK TAURIELLO Well, we’ll email them, we’ll get the video.
MARC BLUESTEIN Yeah! And thats another thing. You can request their videos.
What were the name’s of the tapes they had?
MARK TAURIELLO The Exit Tapes ?
MARC BLUESTEIN There’s the Exit Tapes…but something else.
To my knowledge, they will send them to you. You just have to send them cash ? I believe?
Kind of odd, but hey …piece of history there for you.
JEN WILSON And do you have to give them back when you’re done ?
MARC BLUESTEIN I think they’re your copies.
MARK TAURIELLO I think you get to keep it.
MARC BLUESTEIN I think it’s kind of like requesting religious material by mail.
JEN WILSON. Oh, okay.
A donation?
MARC BLUESTEIN Yeah, exactly.
MARK TAURIELLO I hope that they’re in a UFO universe…the 39 people.
MARC BLUESTEIN I hope so.
You know, it was a lot of effort. A lot of time. A lot of putting look’s together.
They deserve that.
JEN WILSON Yeah, absolutely.
MARC BLUESTEIN They do.
MARK TAURIELLO And that is why I love Heaven’s Gate.
MARC BLUESTEIN I think thats a great reason!
JEN WILSON Yeah !
I love the website. Love the website. Love the aesthetic.
MARC BLUESTEIN There you go ! Check out HeavensGate.com
There. You. Go.
So, thats Heaven’s Gate for you.
MARK TAURIELLO Jen , do you wanna go next ?
JEN WILSON Sure ! Why not !? Talking about murder and death.
So, yeah. My favorite cult is the Manson Family.
There’s a lot on the surface that I think people know about the Manson Family. But there’s a lot behind the scenes that people don’t really know about.
I guess that’s what I’m gonna talk to you guy’s about today. And some thing’s that I’ve learned from my research.
I’m sure that everyone who’s listening know’s who the Manson Family is. They were a group that was led by Charles Manson in the 60’s, out in California.
They lived on this old Western Movie ranch, Spahn Ranch.
MARC BLUESTEIN I have a t-shirt from there !
JEN WILSON You do ! You absolutely do. Are you wearing it right now ?
MARC BLUESTEIN I’m not..but, Mark has his Heaven’s Gate t-shirt on ! Anyway, I’m sorry, please continue.
JEN WILSON And pretty much, Charles Manson has them go out and so these killing’s.
But, it was because he was so influenced by The Beatles.
And he actually thought that The Beatles were calling out to him…and singing directly to him, telling him to go murder people. That’s where Helter Skelter comes from. It comes from The Beatles song, off of the White Album.
Everyone could probably say and agree with me, that the White Album was considered a very, very, controversial album. The Beatles were exploring with different sound’s, different styles of music. Kind of like, when you listen to it, you think “ What the hell were they on !?”
But, Helter Skelter is a song off of that album. And in fact, Helter Skelter is actually a slide at an amusement park in England.
MARK TAURIELLO Oh!
MARC BLUESTEIN I had no idea. Jen just told me before we started recording this, and I was like “ What !?”
JEN WILSON Yeah, you definitely have seen them. They look like.. it look’s like a lighthouse.
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JEN WILSON You climb to the top, and its just like.. a twisty slide.
MARK TAURIELLO Oh, look at that. It spirals down the lighthouse.
JEN WILSON I’ve actually been, I’ve been on one before.
MARC BLUESTEIN Really ?
JEN WILSON Yeah, its fun! Its lit up inside, and it plays music.
JEN WILSON The song Helter Skelter, Manson, interpreted as a race war. And that Helter Skelter was the final war to happen.
MARC BLUESTEIN I…where does the connection…I mean maybe I don’t understand because I don’t have a cult of my own yet. But like, where does that come from do you think?
JEN WILSON I think…You have to remember that this was a time where…people were experimenting with different drugs, hallucinogens were really big.
And I know that he used to give his follower’s..he would give them LSD. He would pretend he was taking it, but he really wasn’t. This was a way for him to break these women down, and build them back up .
MARC BLUESTEIN A very classic kind of method that they all seem to have.
JEN WILSON Right, exactly. Yeah.
And something else that was really interesting, because like, I just know who Sharon Tate is because of the Manson murders.
I learned that she didn’t really become a film icon until after her death. It was like her death made her a movie star.
MARC BLUESTEIN Thats so unfortunate because that happens with so many people
JEN WILSON Because she did a lot of “ bit part’s ” , she was never a lead. She always had bit part’s, or she was a “ featured actress “ on an episode of a sitcom. But, yeah.
MARC BLUESTEIN Yeah, I mean, honestly the only film that I personally knew of Sharon Tate being in was Valley of the Dolls . And even in that she wasn’t the lead role, so its very interesting for sure.
JEN WILSON Yeah, no , definitely. I was actually in the middle of reading Helter Skelter. Actually, I’m not reading it, I’m listening to it on Audible.
MARC BLUESTEIN Even better!
JEN WILSON It’s too long ! It’s just too long. I need someone to read it to me.
MARK TAURIELLO It’s a good bedtime novel.
MARC BLUESTEIN Yeah !
JEN WILSON It’s a great bedtime novel, exactly. I have it read to me every night while I fall asleep.
So, some fact’s about Manson. Not everybody know’s this, but Manson never killed anybody.
MARC BLUESTEIN And don’t you think it’s fascinating that he never killed anybody, but went to prison for the rest of his life, but didn’t actually do anything. I mean.. I don’t know what his technical classification was in term’s of sentencing.
JEN WILSON I feel like it was considered Manslaughter, even though he didn’t commit the crimes.
MARC BLUESTEIN Yeah, I mean, was he an accomplice ?
I don’t know. I feel like they just gave him the old fashioned First Degree murder charges. The line’s get kind of blurred in this case, I think.
JEN WILSON Yeah, yeah.
MARC BLUESTEIN Very odd.
JEN WILSON. But he’s still technically guilty, like, he was still technically guilty of the crime.
Another thing people don’t realize is, Manson was a musician. He was actually friend’s with Brian Wilson from the Beach Boy’s.
He used to go to Spahn Ranch all the time. The family used to hang out of his house.
Oh, no..it was the other one.
MARK TAURIELLO Oh, these fact checker’s are gonna be coming for us !
JEN WILSON Guy’s, forgive us. It’s our first podcast.
MARC BLUESTEIN It’s one of the damn Beach Boy’s, ok? You get the point.
JEN WILSON I wonder how he feel’s, or how he felt…being connected to somebody like that ?
MARC BLUESTEIN It’s kind of a big burden to carry. To know that you supported this person that you thought was just a weird hippie musician. Then you find out, oh, not so much ! He’s a little quirky!
MARK TAURIELLO At least it’s free press.
JEN WILSON Did you guy’s also know that he also had a celebrity hit list ?
MARC BLUESTEIN No! Who was on the list !?
JEN WILSON Frank Sinatra , Liz Taylor
MARC BLUESTEIN Liz Taylor !? What did she do to anybody ?
JEN WILSON And Steve Mcqueen
MARC BLUESTEIN I would just like to know what the rationale was behind each person, because they’re all very different.
MARK TAURIELLO I wonder, why Liz Taylor ?
JEN WILSON He also had a thing with race and class. I didn’t even realize he was a huge racist as well. His plan was to do these killing’s and blame them on the minorities.
MARC BLUESTEIN All of it’s so crazy.
MARK TAURIELLO Kind of what’s going on today.
JEN WILSON Exactly. Exactly what’s going on today.
MARK TAURIELLO We got political up in here .
JEN WILSON I know, oooooo.
MARC BLUESTEIN Well, a good place for me to pick up from though.
JEN WILSON Yeah, I kind of fell like these two piggy back off of each other a little bit.
MARC BLUESTEIN They do. And speaking of what Mark just said, about thing’s that are going on today. In term’s of race, and all of the issues that we’re having in this “ wonderful country “.
We’re gonna get into Jonestown . Do you guy’s know about Jonestown ?
JEN WILSON I just know about Jim Jones. It was in Guyana, right ?
MARC BLUESTEIN The People’s Temple
JEN WILSON They drank the Kool – Aid, right ? That’s where the term “ Don’t drink the Kool – Aid “ come’s from.
MARC BLUESTEIN That’s right. And did you know that surviving member’s are very offended by that comment ?
MARK TAURIELLO I don’t blame them !
MARC BLUESTEIN I don’t either !
JEN WILSON How many survived ?
MARC BLUESTEIN I don’t have an exact number. But, I know that over 900 people died in the Mass Murder / Mass Suicide.
Jonestown, it’s a very interesting story.
Unlike Charles Manson, who thought he was better than everybody. Who committed these crime’s and wanted to blame them on a minority group….
Jim Jones actually started out helping minorities, and doing a lot of great things within his community.
You guy’s already know about Jonestown. I think the most popular thing’s you hear tend to be the tragedy that happened, and rightfully so ! People should know about these thing’s, but..
The good thing’s Jim Jones did tend to be swept under the carpet. The things he did before he became the crazy “ Cult Leader “.
When Jim Jones was growing up in Indianapolis, his father, was part of the KKK.
JEN WILSON No shit !
MARC BLUESTEIN Yeah ! Isn’t that crazy ?
And this is where his quest started out. Because his father wouldn’t let his Black friend’s into their house. He stopped associating with him, and didn’t talk to him for a really long time.
That seemed to be the start of his activism.
The following is from the New York Times , about Jim Jones .
“ Jones was outraged at what he perceived as racial discrimination in his white congregation. He established his own church that was open to all ethnic group’s.
He imported and sold monkey’s, door to door; to raise money ”
JEN WILSON That’s so cute !
MARC BLUESTEIN I know! Isn’t that adorable? Little monkey’s!
Jonestown actually had a mascot called Mr. Mugg’s, that was their chimpanzee. Another fun little fact there.
Over his time, he actually helped racially integrate churches, restaurant’s, a movie theatre, an amusement park, even a hospital.
He was really influential in..
MARK TAURIELLO In bringing people together ! Racial equality.
MARC BLUESTEIN Yes !
He used to set up sting operation’s to catch restaurant’s that were refusing to serve Black people.
There were two families in his neighborhood that had Swastikas painted on their door’s. He went around comforting them , while encouraging White families not to move…not to add to the problem of the racial inequality.
He encouraged everyone to stay where they were, and to band together. Which I think is a really cool thing. You don’t even see that today, you actually have the opposite going on.
JEN WILSON He was also a preacher, right ?
MARC BLUESTEIN. He was. I believe his first church was in Indianapolis, The People’s Temple. Then he moved it to San Francisco.
I believe he had both location’s, and this was all before Guyana happened. These churches had already been established.
MARK TAURIELLO I’m just wondering, I don’t know if this is PC….
Was he doing it because he genuinely cared about people ? Or was he reaching out to the disenfranchised to help build his following ?
MARC BLUESTEIN It’s a controversial topic because a lot of people who were associated with him, and around him at that time…
They seemed to believe that he was doing it out of goodness and care, for the disenfranchised.
JEN WILSON Yeah.
MARC BLUESTEIN Now, of course theres the flip side to it. You can look at the classic markers of a cult, or a cult leader…who would go to certain group’s because they could capitalize, or take advantage in some kind of way .
It just seemed as though he did so much good for a very long time. Not a perfect person by any means, still a terrible individual.
If you’re comparing him to someone else like him, I don’t know if you’ll think this is too controversial…
The current president ( Trump ), and Jim Jones have a lot of similarities. At least in the case of Jim Jones, he wasn’t promoting inequality.
JEN WILSON You know what’s really interesting is that, it’s so easy for people to hide behind religion. Was it just a facade, or was he as religious as he claimed to be ?
MARK TAURIELLO These cult’s draw a lot of inspiration from Christianity and the Bible.
MARC BLUESTEIN. They do.
MARK TAURIELLO I think Christianity is the ultimate cult.
MARC BLUESTEIN It absolutely is !
It’s funny that you and Jen brought up the same point, referring to religion.
Here’s a quote from Marceline Jones, who was his wife. She admitted to the New York Times that :
“ Jim used religion to get some people out of what he called “ The Opiate of Religion “.
He’d slam a Bible, stating “ I’ve got to destroy this Paper Idol “ .
Jones began deriding Christianity as a “ Fly Away Religion “ . Rejecting the Bible as a tool to oppress women and non – whites. Denouncing “ Sky God “ as no God at all. “
This is why I think he’s such an interesting figure, and that Jonestown is fascinating. He didn’t use of of the classic tactics.
MARK TAURIELLO Since I’m always talking about aesthetics, I do have to say that I like that he wore sunglasses.
JEN WILSON He wore the collared shirt with the Aviator sunglasses. And a little comb over.
MARC BLUESTEIN They say he only started wearing sunglasses once he became a drug addict.
MARK TAURIELLO. Hi Daddy.
MARC BLUESTEIN That girl was always serving look’s.
JEN WILSON Manson was more…he thought of HIMSELF as God. His followers looked at him like God.
I know that when all of the suspect’s started getting questioned, a lot of these women were saying thing’s like “ Charlies listening to us right now “ , “ He hear’s everything we’re talking about “.
MARC BLUESTEIN That’s a very common thing.
There was a survivor from Jonestown that said, when you would talk to Jim, it was if he could read your mind. It was a certain kind of presence. Which I guess helps your case when becoming a cult leader.
JEN WILSON Like some sort of charm, charisma.
If you think about it, all of these serial killer’s and cult leader’s had charm. Look at Ted Bundy, look at how he would handle himself. He was a charming man, but he did some really messed up things.
MARK TAURIELLO Confidence goes a long ways.
JEN WILSON Exactly.
MARC BLUESTEIN Fake it till you make it .
JEN WILSON I always tell myself “ Fake it till you make it “, I guess I rally have to start living by that.
MARC BLUESTEIN It work’s for cult leaders !
JEN WILSON I’m not going to start a cult though.
MARC BLUESTEIN Jonestown is my personal favorite because, for as many bad things and the atrocities that occurred…he really had a impact in good ways.
JEN WILSON There were only 3 surviving member’s of the massacre.
MARC BLUESTEIN Really ? Is that the number ?
JEN WILSON Yeah, I just looked it up. There were 909 death’s , and 3 survivor’s .
MARC BLUESTEIN That’s really crazy.
MARK TAURIELLO. I would love to see the place. You said it’s Guyana, correct ?
Do you think that the camp ( Jonestown ) is still there today ?
MARC BLUESTEIN The camp is still there.
JEN WILSON Really !?
MARC BLUESTEIN And if you go into the jungle of Guyana, you can still find the sign that say’s “ People’s Temple Agricultural Project “.
JEN WILSON. Interesting !
MARC BLUESTEIN You can still see some of the sign’s, some of the vehicles.
JEN WILSON I know that Spahn Ranch is part of the National park now. The ranch isn’t there, it’s knocked down. But the actual land is part of a big National park. There’s hiking trails.
MARC BLUESTEIN. That’s so interesting, I would love to see that. We’re fascinated by these thing’s.
JEN WILSON Well, I know in Waco they have a memorial in the spot of where the Branch Davidians home was .
LET’S GO TO TEXAS !!
MARC BLUESTEIN Oh my God! Road trip! Let’s go! Here we come.
MARK TAURIELLO The Heaven’s Gate mansion is beautiful, and it was huge. I don’t care how many people died there, I would live there in a minute.
MARC BLUESTEIN Don’t forget to use DiedInHouse.com !
JEN WILSON. There’s a movie on Netflix , in case you haven’t seen it yet, its called Manson Family Vacation .
It’s about this Black Sheep brother who comes to visit, and he is now fixated on Charles Manson . Kind of how we are! But, he’s doing a whole tour of California. Making his brother drive him around to all of the locations.
Like the Mexican restaurant that Sharon Tate ate at on the night of her death . ( El Coyote )
There’s a scene where they’re sitting there for lunch, and he’s like “ We’re here…we’re at the EXACT table..”
Then they break into the Tate / La Bianca house, because its a private home. They lie and say that they were the grandchildren of the La Bianca’s.
So they could get in and “ Get some picture’s, yeah! “
MARC BLUESTEIN. So thats why they broke in !?
JEN WILSON It was funny, a lot of Dark Humor .
MARK TAURIELLO Marc and I have a piece of stone from the fireplace of the Sharon Tate house .
JEN WILSON Yes you do ! You also have the matches.
MARC BLUESTEIN We do.
MARK TAURIELLO And we also have the matches.
MARC BLUESTEIN The El Ke-yo-te !
MARK TAURIELLO I think it’s El Coyote . Whatever ! Tomato, to-mat-oh.
MARC BLUESTEIN It’s one of them!
So, I’m gonna finish this up.
One of the thing’s that I really love about the People’s Temple, not so much Jim Jones, fuck Jim Jones !
A former member said :
“ The people were incredible, people who were capable of committing themselves to something outside their self interests. “
That’s a quote from Laura Johnston Kohl , a former member.
“ All of us were doing the right things in the wrong place, with the wrong leader “
I think thats a really interesting testament. Despite the tragedies associated, these people were trying to do something bigger than themselves. And it did effect these people. The right things effected the right people for the right reasons.
When you get this crazy person ( Jim Jones ), they seem like they’re on a good path, but this always seems to happen.
It starts out good, you’re doing good things, productive things. Then you turn into a dark sunglass wearing…you know.
JEN WILSON Yeah !
MARC BLUESTEIN Flavor – Aid person, ya know ? It’s hard !
MARK TAURIELLO. It’s hard out here for a cult leader !!
MARC BLUESTEIN To top that off, I have an interesting quote here.
MARK TAURIELLO I’m ready to be blown away !
JEN WILSON. I’m ready !
MARC BLUESTEIN You guy’s ready for it !?
This quote is from Terry Buford O’Shea, and she escaped Guyana a few days before the event took place.
This is from TheAtlantic.com By Jenny Rothenberg Gritz
They asked Terry what she thought about the word Cult, and what it means to her.
Now thats a very big discussion.
If anyone has seen any recent shows about cults , theres a always a moment where someone says “ Cult means New Culture, man !!! “ It really doesn’t…thats not a technical definition. I thought it was better to have a direct reference.
She says:
“ A cult is when you aren’t allowed to see your friends or family. I’m talking about total isolation. Someone takes your money, brings you to a place with no communication. Or, if there is, you aren’t allowed to use it. Trust your gut, and don’t give up your liberties. “
I think that should be the definition in the dictionary.
MARK TAURIELLO I think thats sound advice.
JEN WILSON It is ! I wish more people would do that.
MARK TAURIELLO The correct dictionary meaning of Cult is
“ A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. “
All right, so is this a wrap for our first episode ?
JEN WILSON I cant believe we did it…
MARK TAURIELLO Everyone listening, follow us on our Instagram page which is @BizarreBuffet
MARC BLUESTEIN And you can find Mark Tauriello , where can we find you Mark ?
MARK TAURIELLO At the latest UFO cult.
MARC BLUESTEIN What about you, Jen Wilson ?
JEN WILSON You can find me hitchhiking out in California…burning my money…cutting up my credit cards….
MARK TAURIELLO We’re basically in a cult now, and its called BIZARRE BUFFET .
MARC BLUESTEIN And I’m Marc Bluestein. You can find me on a park bench somewhere…trying to take your lunch.
END
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